070 - Book | Crucial Conversations
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Today's episode is one that I hope you will bookmark and come back to. Actually, I'm almost positive this is one that you will bookmark and come back to. That's because I'm going to share with you the simple steps and how to have a really hard conversation—a crucial conversation—steps that will help you think through what you will say before you say it, and tools that will change your marriage, change your family relationships, your work relationships, all for the better.
For the full episode, hit play above or read through it below!
This episode could be exactly what you need to become the leader that you want to be, the leader you need to be. And today, I'm going to show you how to be a safe person for people, friends, even your kids to come and talk to you. It's all based on the book, Crucial Conversations. And I'm so grateful that this book was introduced to me, and I'm honored I get to introduce it to you.
Crucial conversations are kind of inevitable in life.
Whether it's in your work or your play, any relationship that you have in life is bound to come across a crucial conversation at some point. The first thing I want to do is define what a crucial conversation is.
The authors define a crucial conversation as a conversation in which three things are taking place:
Opinions vary—you probably disagree with the other person.
Stakes are high.
Emotions run strong.
Usually, the results of having a crucial conversation has a really big impact on your life.
So, let me talk about some examples of crucial conversations:
Maybe when it's time to break up with your boyfriend, asking a dear friend to repay some money that you loaned her, giving your boss some sensitive feedback about her behavior, talking to a team member who isn't keeping their commitments, talking about healthy boundaries with your in-laws, aka, hey, stop getting involved as much, or I don't really want your opinion.
All of those things are super sensitive, right? Opinions vary, stakes are high, and emotions run strong.
Now, are you feeling a little bit sweaty after that rundown of crucial conversations? I don't know about you, but I'm feeling a little bit sweaty. Those things just make me a little nervous.
The problem here is that we start to believe we only have two options when it comes to those conversations: either we can speak up and make somebody totally hate us because we're the bad guy or suffer in silence and just let things keep going on the way they're going, but never say anything, never confront the problem.
The book calls that the fool's choice. The authors say skilled people don't make fool's choices. They know that it's not an either-or situation, but they're mature. They can keep working to problem solve until they see a better way. And I am here to tell you today there is a better way. It's not either-or, and that's what we're going to talk about today. We are going to discuss how you can effectively have a crucial conversation.
Before we go on, I keep talking about the book Crucial Conversations and the authors. The reason why I can't say it's by the certain author is because it's by four brilliant authors, Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler. And I want to give them all the credit before we continue to dive into this material. So when I'm mentioning the book or the authors, that is who I'm referring to. They are the brilliant ones who have given hundreds, thousands of hours of research into this topic so that you and I can benefit from it. So, I'm very grateful for them and all of their work.
All right. So let's talk about a conversation first. What's the conversation? Well, it's just a dialogue, right? Conversation is dialogue. And the definition of dialogue is simply the free flow of meaning between two or more people. Now, a healthy dialogue or conversation is when two people add all that they need to this pool of shared meaning. And I love that kind of visualization that there's a pool and you both have to contribute your meaning to this pool and share the meaning in order to have an effective conversation. I feel like that's a lot of times where things go wrong is one person doesn't contribute their side of the story, or ... Yeah, you don't contribute your side or you're not listening to their side or you don't care to hear their side. So just starting with that blanket statement, that a dialogue is simply the free flow of meaning between two or more people. And both of you have to contribute to the pool of shared meaning.
So, let's talk about ways to create conditions in yourself and others to make that dialogue healthy and not scary, especially when things get intense or turn crucial.
I'm going to outline seven steps to having a crucial conversation. Then, afterwards, I'm just going to take my big three takeaways, like I do every time I read a book, and let you know what are the three things that I really take with me that I put into action in the moment when I'm having a crucial conversation.
So, let's talk about the seven things first.
1. Start with heart.
Whenever conversation kind of turns crucial, and you're feeling like it's a little bit tense, you have to start with your heart. Focus on what you really want. What do you want from this conversation? What's your ultimate goal. And you always have to start with yourself, right? Start with the person in the mirror, not the other person, not what they need to fix, but look inward. It's not your goal to win or to prove yourself right, but check your heart. What's your actual goal here?
Ask yourself three questions:
What do I really want for myself?
What do I really want for others?
What do I really want for this relationship?
Then, ask yourself, "Okay, now that I know those answers what do I really want, how would I behave if I really wanted these results? How do I need to behave in this conversation to get the results?"
It is possible to speak up and share your heart and really go after the main goal and maintain respect between someone who you're having a crucial conversation with. But, I think it's important to realize that when it turns crucial, when you're angry and when you start to get sweaty and upset, like you feel like you could yell, when your brain isn't functioning well because of all of that emotion that's running so high, your brain resists complexity. Your brain isn't going to want to ask this question. It's not going to want to stop and say, "Nancy, what does your heart really want in this circumstance?" No, you're just going to want to fire away. And this is like the first very, very basic thing in a crucial conversation, is you have to just take a deep breath and say, "Okay, Nancy, what do I really want here?" Fill in the blank with your name. What do I really want? What do I want? What are the results that I really want from this conversation? Start with heart.
2. Learn to look.
So, after you've assessed your own heart and, really, the ultimate goal of the conversation, you have to look around and realize, okay, when does this conversation turn crucial. Has it turned crucial? Do I feel unsafe, or angry, or upset? Why do I feel that way? Do they feel defensive? Look for those safety problems. Also, look for your own style of how are you responding to this intense conversation. Do you want to run the other way? Do you want to go retreat to silence or do you want to engage in violence, and maybe yell, and let it be known what you're feeling no matter what the cost is? You have to learn to look.
You have to be an observer of yourself, and the other person in the conversation. Because as soon as those emotions start to run high, that's when you need to look for the piece of content in the conversation. What was that piece of information that just turned this into a crucial conversation? What is the actual subject matter we're talking about here that's making us feel this way?
Then, look at the condition. What is our response? The two people in the conversation, whoever you're having it with, what is our response? What's our attitude? What is shifting? What's happening? You kind of have to step out of the conversation and look at everything, and then step back in.
So, first is start with heart. Second is learn to look.
3. Once you've observed everything, it's your job to make it safe.
This, I think, is the most beautiful part. Because if I think of who I want to be as a wife, as a mother, as a friend, I want people to look at me and say, "Nancy's a safe person. She's someone safe that I can come to." But, guess what? I'm the only one who can make myself safe.
So, this one might be one of my favorite points. Make it safe. Dialogue calls for the free flow of meaning, and nothing kills that free flow of meaning like fear. If someone feels intimidated by you, they're not going to talk. They're not going to contribute to that pool of meaning. That's when we lock up, we don't say anything, or we lose our temper. This is where we have to fight your natural tendency to react and take a deep breath and say, "I want to be a safe person. I'm going to choose to make it safe." And I want to talk about a few ways how you can make it safe in the conversation.
Just like I've already said, one simple thing you need to do is just step out of the conversation, assess it, and then step back in. Acknowledge, hey, this is what we're talking about. This is what's happening. Point it out. Don't react emotionally, just say, "These are the things I'm observing. Are you seeing the same thing?"
Then, you want to establish mutual purpose. Now, to really succeed in a crucial conversation, we have to genuinely care about the other person, care about listening to them, and hearing from them. And a great way to do this and to get them talking is to point out something that they care about that you also care about. That's establishing mutual purpose. It can be very broad. Sometimes you have to back up and make this very broad like, "Hey, we both want to be friends here, right? We both want to stay friends. So that's why I feel like we need to have this conversation, is because I want to keep you as a friend in my life."
Another thing you can do is to maintain mutual respect. Really work on just the way that you speak to the other person and showing that they're respected. Because honestly, as soon as you feel disrespected, that's usually when a conversation goes wrong. If I feel disrespected, I'm going to react poorly because I don't like that feeling. And same thing goes for the person you're talking to. They want to be respected.
You might be asking, "Okay, well, what if I'm having a crucial conversation with someone that I genuinely don't respect? That's why this is so hard is because they have hurt me so badly or they have acted so immaturely I have lost my respect for this person. This is impossible." Well, I think in that situation, you need to step back and just recognize that we're all people. We're all humans. We all have weaknesses. I think it's easier to find a way to respect other people when you realize they just have different struggles than you do. So, do whatever you can to maintain that mutual respect.
Honestly, sometimes I just pray, and I'm like, "Lord, help me to respect this person because they are made in Your image. Even though we see so differently on this, help me to find even the smallest bit of respect for this person."
Another way to make it safe is just to view their aggression not as something that they're coming at you with and taking it personally, but simply as a sign of, “hey, their safety feels violated right now.” Their feeling of safety has clearly been violated and messed up to the point that they are reacting this way. And again, you have to step out of the conversation, think, "How can I make it safe?" and then step back in to the content of what you're trying to say.
Another way to make it safe is just opening up with an apology when it's appropriate. I'm not saying you need to apologize for something if you haven't done anything wrong. But even if there's just a part of something that you've done wrong or you haven't handled it well ... Maybe the content of what you're trying to say or the point you're trying to make doesn't change, but maybe you say, "Hey, I'm really sorry that I haven't gone about this the best way, and that I haven't talked to you about this sooner because this is how I've been feeling for weeks." Or, I think just starting with an apology when it's appropriate is just a posture of humility, and it's a really good way to make a conversation safe.
And then finally, a great way to make a conversation safer is the skill of contrasting. I had never heard of this before I read this book, but I really love this idea of contrasting. It's simply a don't-do statement. So, you say what you don't want to happen, and then you follow it up with what you do want to happen. You follow it up with your goal.
A couple of examples, you could say, "Listen, the last thing I want to communicate is that I don't value all the hard work you've been putting into meal planning and grocery shopping, but I do want to talk about how we can stay within our food budget and how I feel like you haven't really been holding up to your end of the bargain there." That would be an example of contrast. You say, "This is not what I want to do. This is what I want to do."
Another example, maybe you're living with a roommate and you say, "I don't want you to think I don't like living with you," or, "I don't like you being my roommate. I really love that. I love being your roommate, but I do want to discuss that sometimes you wear my clothes without asking me, and that's hard for me. I want to tell you a little bit about how that makes me feel so we can come to an agreement on what works for both of us." So, contrasting is that don't-do statement that you can use just to make someone safe. And I love that because I think it really clarifies your goals before you start talking about the issue.
4. Master your story.
You have to learn how to master your own story. And the key word here is story. So what happens is you have to retrace your path to action. Basically, separate fact from story. There's four steps kind of that happen when you get to the point of feeling like you need to tell your side of the story in a crucial conversation. You see and hear something that occurs in life. You tell yourself a story which makes you feel something, and then you act on it. So first, you see and hear something that happens. You tell yourself a story. You feel about that situation. It causes some emotions in you. And then, you act on it.
This is crucial, but you have to (... Crucial. Like that? hah) You have to separate fact from story. This is one part of this puzzle that really helps me articulate in a crucial conversation. I'm going to get into that a little bit more in a minute. But, one of the questions you have to ask yourself as you're kind of retracing how you got to where you are, which is your path to action, is asking yourself this question: What am I pretending not to know about my role in the problem?
Because a lot of times we go into these conversations and we're like, "These are all the things out there that are wrong," or, "This is all of the things that have affected me, that are upsetting me." But, guess what? We all have blind spots. And that one question is really important to genuinely ask yourself, humbly ask yourself, "Okay, I might not have all of this right. What am I pretending not to know about my role in this problem?" Whew. That's a hard one to ask, but really good.
5. S-T-A-T-E your path.
So, number four was master your story, kind of understand how you got to the place you are. This is where the crucial conversation happens: STATE your path, and S-T-A-T-E stands for:
Share your facts
Tell your story
Ask for other paths
Talk tentatively
Encourage testing
This is what I want you to remember from this podcast, the word STATE. I'm going to break this down for you because this is what I want you to think about when you go to have your next crucial conversation.
Share your facts
Don't get emotional about it. This is just stating the exact facts that happened in your life. You're talking to your friend. It's a heated conversation. Say, "These two things happened recently. Do you remember when those two things happened? Okay." Share your facts.
Tell your story
When those two things happened, this is how it made me feel. This is the story I was telling myself. These are the conclusions that I came to after those two things actually happened. This is how it made me feel.
Ask for other's paths
Do you see how that could make me feel that way? Could you maybe explain why you did those two things or help me understand your side of the story? Because I'm feeling a little bit hurt by those two things that you did. And I would really love to hear why you did those things. You ask for their path. You really ask for them to share their heart, and what happened, and what caused them to do those things.
Talk tentatively
So as you're exchanging this information, you might have to go back in and fill in some of the gaps of your story. But, it's really important as you're telling your story, as you're having this conversation, to not share everything as hard facts. Again, pointing back to share the facts, then tell your story and present it as a story. Say things like in my opinion or I'm beginning to wonder if. Don't use absolutes, like, hey, everyone thinks this and this is how it has been forever. Don't use these absolutes. Just talk tentatively.
But while you're talking tentatively, don't be a wimp about it. Don't say, "Oh, I know. Call me crazy. This is how I'm feeling." Don't belittle yourself so much that you take away from the truth of it. Talk tentatively use ... In my opinion, this is how it made me feel. But, talk firmly, and be truthful with how you're feeling.
Encourage testing
What does that mean? Well, kind of test the waters. Invite them. Encourage their views. Say things like, "What am I missing here? Is this really what happened? Can you fill in the blanks for me? I really want to hear from you. I'd really appreciate it if you shared your side of the story, or if there's anything that I did to make you feel upset in this." Really encouraged testing, and draw out their answers.
So again, going over STATE; S-T-A-T-E, share your facts, the facts, tell your story, how it made you feel, ask for other's paths and genuinely listen, talk tentatively, and encourage testing.
6. Explore others' paths.
So when you're listening to them, when you are having them share with you what happened, their side of the story, you can do four things to really help yourself listen intently and engage in them while they're speaking.
The first one is to ask. Obviously, just ask for their side of the story. Be prepared to listen. Be patient when they start talking and exploring how they feel. And remember, hey, you've prepped a little bit for this conversation, but they haven't. So, it's a good time to just give them grace and kind of allow them to answer and process as they're answering.
The second is mirror. Make sure to just repeat back kind of what you heard. Mirror back to them to make sure that you understand well.
The third thing is to paraphrase. Just put everything that they've said into your own words and make sure that you understand that.
And then lastly, prime. Priming is what you can do when you're really not getting anywhere in the conversation. You're asking them to talk, but they're not talking, like when you want to talk to your teenager about something and she says, "I'm fine. I'm fine." Right? Offer your best guess at how they're actually feeling or thinking to get them talking. So, you could say something like, "Well, if I had to guess, you're not really fine. You're probably upset that I took your phone away and you feel really angry and alone. Would that be right?" That's a perfect example of priming, trying to get a little bit more out of them.
So, make sure that when you are exploring other's paths, you are really engaged in listening to them.
7. Move to action
Decide how you'll decide. If there's something that you need to do after this conversation, decide who's going to do what by when, how you're going to follow up, what action steps do you need to take. I'll never forget. There was this really big meeting Will and I were a part of. It was an organization he used to be a part of. We spent two days, two whole days, brainstorming everything that we needed to do in the organization, and laid out a calendar, and really tackled some sensitive issues, had several crucial conversations along the way.
And we were wrapping up our time of planning together, and Will just kind of raised his hand. He said, "So, who's going to do what?" And we really had realized we spent the whole time tackling a lot of these issues and finding game plans for it, but we didn't know who was going to do what. And if Will hadn't asked that question and people weren't assigned to certain tasks to carry out the resolutions and decisions that had been made, the whole two days would have been a complete waste. Because if it's everybody's job, it's nobody's job. So, making sure you ask the simple questions:
Who does what by when?
How are we going to follow up?
It's such an important piece of this puzzle of having a crucial conversation.
So now that I've gone through the seven kind of steps through a crucial conversation, I want to share my three takeaways, the three things. It's a lot for your brain. Next time a crucial conversation pops up in your life, you're not going to be able to recite those seven things that I just shared with you in the moment. I hope you get the book, and read it, and get it ingrained in you because it's really helpful. But, these are my three takeaways.
The three things that I always think about as soon as I'm in the middle of a crucial conversation:
Number One is to start with heart. What do you really want from the conversation? Because usually, it's not to prove your point. It's not to prove that you're right, even though that's what we tend to do. It's reconciliation. It's getting on the same page again so that you don't feel angsty, and upset, and angry. You want to have that reconciliation. You want to restore the friendship, or the marriage, or whatever it is. Start with heart. What do you really, really want for yourself, for them, for the relationship.
Number Two, make it safe. Go back and listen to the things I shared to really make it safe. Humbly come into the conversation. Apologize if you need to. Kind of step out of the conversation, say some things about it, and then step back into it. Do whatever you can to make it safe for people so people know you're a safe person to talk to.
And Number Three is that word STATE, S-T-A-T-E. Share your facts. Tell your story. Ask for other's paths. Talk tentatively. And encourage testing. I go through those five things in my brain while I'm having a crucial conversation. So if nothing else, those would be worth memorizing.
Now, after reading this book, I felt like I just had discovered this gold mine in life. Because here's the deal: hard conversations are hard. They make us sweaty and uncomfortable. And oftentimes, there's tears and this physiological response in us that makes us quite literally want to run the other way. But, guess what? Hard conversations are inevitable.
What have you learned? This handful of tools that can make you brave in these instances. I'm not saying those feelings are going to go away. They'll be there. They'll be there all through the conversation. But what if you could not have the conversation with those emotions being the driving force, but instead taking a step back, knowing you can navigate this conversation with measured steps, a peaceful voice, a listening ear?
And just keep thinking about that verse in the Bible that says, "My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry."
I feel like usually unhealthy crucial conversations go like this. Anger. Lots of talking. Here's my side of the story. My side of the story. My side of the story. Not very much listening. But if you are listening, you're probably just rehearsing and planning the next thing you're going to say in your head, right? That's not the way that we should have these crucial conversations. I'm going to tell you, it is the way I've had several conversations in my life. I'm not saying it's the way we should. I'm just thankful for this book.
And by the way, this is not a Christian book. This is actually more of a business book than anything, believe it or not. But, the approach taken in these pages has allowed me to quite literally, in my own life, to quiet my anger, to have thoughtful discussions, and communicate much more effectively while being slow to anger, slow to speak, and quick to listen. It's helped me to implement that scripture in my actual everyday life. So even if you never read the book, I hope this podcast episode will be a resource for you to come back to time and time again when you need it most.
Work and Play Cornerstore
This is where I give you a book I'm loving, and a thing I'm loving. I'll get a tiny commission from anything bought through these links, but it helps me continue to bring this podcast to you every week. I'm always so grateful for when you buy through my links, and it's just fun.
So, of course I'm going to be adding Crucial Conversations, as well as Family Table Topics. We actually got Family Table Topics in a Chick-fil-A Happy Meal. Happy Meal? Chick-fil-A Kid's Meal. Happy Meal, I guess, is just McDonald's, right? Chick-Fil-A Kid's Meal. And it was so fun. We have them in our drawer. We used them for dinner that night.
Basically, it's just a set of cards with questions on it. They're specifically designed to engage kids and family in the art of conversation. You can order the bigger version of the game here. But, it's just really fun. We do it maybe two or three times a month. Maybe. It's just a fun way to have a different conversation at dinner. And our kids, even though they're really young, they really love it.
I'm going to close with words from the authors of Crucial Conversations:
As much as others may need to change or we may want them to change, the only person we can continually inspire, prod, and shape with any degree of success is the person in the mirror.
Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you next time.
