124 - We're Debt Free AGAIN!
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Show Notes:
I am so excited about today's episode! Today, Will and I are going to be sharing about how we are debt-free again, as we just paid off our house! If you followed us for a while, you know, we are passionate about financial stewardship and financial freedom, and you also might know that we paid off our first mortgage when we were just 25 and 26 years old.
And today we will be telling you a little bit about our journey and how we went back into debt for the house we live in now and how we were able to pay that house off this year. Our hope more than anything is that you would be inspired and know that with some hard work and intentional planning, this could be possible for you, too.
For the full episode, hit play above or read through it below.
Nancy Ray: Well, first I want to thank Will for being here on my podcast. Welcome to the Work and Play Podcast, Babe.
Will Ray: Thanks for having me glad to be here.
Nancy: Glad you're back. This isn't the first time you've been here.
Will: No, it is not.
Nancy: We’ll Have to put the shown in the show notes today, maybe some of the links to our old podcasts.
Will: All the highlights of my—this is my third time. Third time, Third time. Yeah, glad to be back.
Nancy: I’m very excited to talk to you about just our financial journey and really free to be a conversation for us to open up and share transparently kind of our whole story. We're going to try to keep it brief because I feel like we could take a long time with this, but really focusing on the second half of our story, which is kind of where we are today. So, why don't you give somebody who's listening maybe a quick rundown of the first part of our story, the first half of it and how we kind of got to the second half.
Will: Great, great. Where to start. We got engaged and I thought I should start to be responsible and get my head on straight about money management. So I started reading some books about money and finance and things like that. Someone gifted us Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, and just a wonderful gift that someone gave us and that put us on the same page and really got us really fired up about doing some great things with money.
And that was a big deal for us because we came from really different financial backgrounds. We were a powder keg waiting to explode if we didn't get on the same page about our money. And so we adopted those practices and got on the same page and set some shared goals. And that really got us excited.
So we saved up, bought our first house and in almost two and a half years time, in about two and a half years time, we paid that house off at the, what were 25 and 26, and paid off $110,000 in about 30 months, 30-32 months. And that was the first time we had done that. And we had been able to achieve complete debt freedom before then, aside from the mortgage. And then we worked hard and with the growth of your business and some other things were able to pay off the house completely then.
Nancy: Yeah. And we are super passionate about it, too. With Dave Ramsey's resources, following his baby steps, it was such a gift to us. We really wanted to hit baby step six, move on to baby step seven early on. We were blessed—I will say this, too—we’re super blessed to have our colleges paid for. That's something you never want to take for granted from our parents and grandparents, and that really gave us a good leg up in this journey. But yeah, we were, we were zealots. We were super passionate.
Will: Yeah, we led Financial Peace University for a number of times. And, you know, we saw folks from all different walks of life and all different financial backgrounds achieve incredible things by adopting these principles and working the plan. And we're lucky to be a part of that.
And then I was trained by his team to do financial coaching and we just took it as far as we could go with it.
Nancy: Yeah, and before we get to kind of part two of our story, one question I get asked a lot is you guys are so open about sharing about being debt free. You're so open, you know, you post about paying off your house, you're on the Dave Ramsey show. How, how can you be so open about it? Does it ever feel like weird or prideful or kind of uncomfortable to share so openly about your finances? And I just kind of wanted for us to speak to that right away in this episode, because sometimes—I don't know if you feel like this—sometimes it can kind of feel weird a little bit, but we feel like the purpose behind why we share so much more important than that. So why do we share so much about it?
Will: Yeah, I was going to say it does feel weird sometimes. It's like, okay, we're going to share all that. People don't really talk about this. They don't really talk about their personal financial situation, unless they want to brag about their gains ‘cause they bought Bitcoin or something like that. Right? They want to talk about their wins, right? They don't want to talk about struggles or where they came from. And, and we're talking about wins, too, but our hope, I mean everything, and I think you, you do this well in the podcast is everything is in our life. That's a blessing is the grace of God. Right? And so all of this is, is not because of our own self, like in and of our own strength and our own and our own ideas, we were a powder keg, right? But we really feel like adopting a biblical perspective on money management and a stewardship perspective has allowed us to do some things. This is God's way of handling money, not our own way. And He's absolutely blessed us. It's His grace that has allowed any win in our financial life whatsoever. And without Him we'd have nothing, but we share this. We made a commitment a long time ago to share this openly with folks. So they could be inspired and encouraged and can rethink what's possible in their finances. They might not even believe that it's actually possible to be debt free or to pay off their house.
And so we share all of this stuff and we made this decision a long time ago, so that folks might be able to rethink the way they're living and be inspired to new opportunities and new heights with their stewardship of their finances, with their money management and debt freedom, if that is a desire of their heart or their goal.
Nancy: Yeah, and when you become debt-free, it allows for so much opportunity to do so many other things. And I think to be honest, we have lived like a debt-free lifestyle for so long. I mean, we've always had a mortgage, not always, we went for a little while without a mortgage, but when you become completely debt free, you can do so much for not just yourself and your family. I mean, that stuff is fun, but like for God's kingdom. And I think that is really the heart of why we want to share is most, most Americans, most families live in debt. I mean, car payments are normal. Mortgages are normal. Credit card is normal. And I think just sharing that you can live a not normal life and experience a freedom and an ability to give money away and to have experiences that are not burdens and not stressful.
I mean, I think about our marriage. That's one of the biggest reasons I love to share about it is finances is not a stressful thing for us. It's actually a motivating thing for us. It brings us together and that is so powerful when you can really get on the same page with your money and actually get excited and dream together. That I think is how God intended it, not for it to be a burden around your neck, you know, in your marriage and holding you back.
Will: Yeah. To your point. I mean, you think about average car payment in America, something like 400 to $500, right. A mortgage, right, anywhere from maybe $1,000 to $2,500. You know, typically, you know, maybe you got a couple of hundred dollars going out in student loans or in credit card payments and you free up when you become debt free and free up that cash flow on a monthly basis, the things that you can do with that, the wealth building and the giving to ministry that you can do with that, it's really adds up very quickly. It's incredible. If you're able to flip that script and all that money is not going out in debt payments, but it's going out to causes and efforts that you care about that you feel called to, and that, you know, that are going to change the game for your family over the longterm.
Nancy: Yeah. So one approach we've had this whole time is just to be transparent. We don't want to get so bogged down in numbers that we lose you, so we're going to try to keep this like really concise high level so you can track along. But before we get to part two of this story, I always like to just kind of go back and shed light on like, how did we actually pay off our house the first time? Because we were not making a bajillion dollars a year. You were a youth pastor. I was building my photography business and what we decided to do. I just like to break this down because I think this gives hope for people.
The first choice is that we bought an affordable house. We bought a townhouse, it’s value was $160,000. We had saved, saved, saved. You had some leftover college funds that you were able to use. And we put down a down payment of $50,000. And then we had a loan mortgage of $110,000. And we paid it off in two and a half years.
And the way we did that was we lived off of your income as a youth pastor and anything that I made in my photography business went on to the house. We didn't have kids, we lived a fairly simple life. We didn't have any other debt, and we just ran hard after this. And so I think the first year, this is really rough math.
I'm probably going to get it wrong so you can help me add it up to 110. But it was like the first year I made like $30,000, you know, the second year I made, I think maybe $50? $40 or $50,000. And then not last year, you know, as my business grew, my income was growing. And so I think I made like $70 or $80 and over the course of two and a half years, you add that up and that's $110,000.
So a lot of people are like, how did you pay off your house in two and a half years? That's how we chose to live on one income. And literally everything I made, we put on the house.
Will: It was the budget, right? I mean, that was the thing that kept us living just on my youth, pastor salary, right. Paid the bills, paid the mortgage and everything else that we could find or grow or whatever, get through your business, we put onto the house. And that was a big push.
Nancy: Yeah, For sure. Okay. So let's move on to part two. After we paid that house off, we lived there for several years, continuing to just save up cash. We started our family, we had Milly, we had Lyndon. Career change. A couple of career changes, right for you. I guess, yeah. Career change. We'll just say it like that, one or two. And then we decided, okay, it's time to move. And we have really, really, really wanted, I mean, I was kind of a stickler for this—really wanted to buy our next house in cash. We wanted to sell the cows. We saved up like around a hundred thousand dollars, I think in cash a little less than that. And I really wanted to pay cash for our next house. Did that happen?
Will: It did not. Spoiler alert: It did not.
Nancy: No, it did not.
Will: Yeah. And that was a real struggle for us. Cause we're were, when we paid off the house, the first time we said, we never want to go back. Right. And then wasn't planning on a career change and the, that I would be a net drain on the house for a year and you know, trying to get things started up and going. But so it kind of had a little bit of a setback, but we ultimately decided that was the right thing for us. And we were intentional about our choice of house on, you know, the second time as well.
Nancy: For me, I remember really struggling with this. I don't know if you remember, but I was a little bit of a basket case when we kind of made the decision. This is the house for us. We really feel strongly like this is the house, but we, I never thought we'd go back into debt again. And so when we had to go back into, I mean, we didn't have to, right. This was our choice. But when we chose to go back into debt again for this house, I had a little bit of an identity crisis. I was like, no, we're the debt free couple. And I think, you know, one of my friends told us, I think you need to go back into debt because you're holding onto that idol, like a little bit too firmly that idol of like debt freedom. And it was very humbling for me, but ultimately as weird as this sounds, it was good for me to let go of that idol of debt freedom. Because what I realized when we step back, we're still being wise with our money. We didn't go in so over our head that we couldn't afford this house either. We still followed Dave Ramsey's guidelines for buying a house. You know?
So anyway, I just wanted to speak to that because it was really hard for me to let go of that pride and also a very good and important step for me to kind of walk through that and let go of my ego a little bit and learn from that.
Will: Debt freedom is a good, it is objectively good. It is a good ideal, but it shouldn't be an idol. And I think for us, it became part of identity, something that we identified ourselves as like, “Hey, well, we're, we've done Dave Ramsey. We've gone to the mountain and you know, we're debt free now and we can never go back” and we changed that a little bit.
Nancy: Yeah. Yeah. I, when you hit baby step seven, you feel like you can, I don't know. It felt like a failure for me to go back again to baby step six and like try to work on paying off our house again. But I think the lessons that God taught me in this process and letting go of that idol and keeping my heart in check was way more valuable than just attaining the status of debt-free, you know, baby step seven. And so, yeah.
Anyway, let's move on to the house that we bought. Let's talk a little bit and break down the numbers of that. Would you give a rundown again? I like to do this, not to brag or anything, but just to just outline, like, this is practically how you do this, this is how we did it. This is how you also could do this in your own life.
Will: Yep. Now, So we bought that home that we were in for $160 gratefully in a nice neighborhood in a growing market where we live. And so it appreciated and we bought, we bought this home for about $440,000 and sold the other home for $200,000, right?
Nancy: How long did we live in the townhouse?
Will: We were in the town home eight or nine years.
Nancy: And one thing that was interesting, I think is a lot of our friends moved like two or three times in the time that we were still in the townhome. We just kind of stayed there for almost a decade in that townhouse. We were busting at the seams with two kids and a great dane, by the time we left, and a business and employees that came to my house every day—it was very tight. Okay. Carry on.
Will: And so we were able to, we were able to save some money and put a bout $90,000 down, along, and then along with that brought the $200 that we were able to sell our other home for, and so that left us with a total mortgage of about $150,000. Not debt freedom, also not the end of the world.
It was within good guidelines for our income and things like that. And then we paid it off over the course of almost exactly three years. And just last month paid the last payment on that. And so it amounted to about $50,000 a year in mortgage pay-down.
Nancy: Which is kind of on track with the first time.
Will: Not far off. Yeah. A little faster, but in terms of dollars per year.
Nancy: What are some of the sacrifices or things that we sacrifices we made or things that we did in our lives that aren't typical, we're just a little bit different that really made a big difference in achieving this goal.
Will: Hmm. First thing I think about is our cars. My car, when I sold it was 17 years old. So 2003 Honda Accord, sweet red Handa Accord.
Nancy: Sweet little Ruby. She served as well.
Will: We got in 2007 and we just got you a new car. And so that was 14 years. Yeah.
Nancy: And by new he means he used, but yes, just to clarify it.
Will: Right. And so we had this really nice home in a great neighborhood and, you know, driving a 15, 16, 17 year old car. So that's one, one sacrifice that, or that I would say that like one choice that freed up additional cashflow for debt payment.
Nancy: I love thinking about Ruby, which was your car that you kind of drove into the ground mostly because you were working with these business owners and CEOs and like going to these really important meetings and you kind of drove up in this little, little red car that was really run down and you're just grinded for like a few years like that. But I do think, of course we wanted fancier, newer cars, more comfortable cars. And, but we just decided like, we're just going to keep, and then my car, we literally had to get another car because there we stacked all three of our kids in the backseat of our Highlander and they were like sardines in the back and then our great dane in sometimes behind them and then all our luggage on the top. And literally now that I'm about to have a fourth baby, we did not have another seat. So yeah, just the principle of like letting that kind of just riding the car all the way until the end, which is different than I think a lot of Americans or people tend to do.
Will: Yep.
Nancy: Anything else that comes to your mind?
Will: We try to limit eating out though. We do eat out a lot more than we used to. I mean, the amount of, we try to limit our monthly spending. We are intentional about where our money goes and careful about that. So just being, you know, intentional, I wouldn't say we're as strict with the budget as we used to be, but we're still on the same page. And all of our spending is constrained within kind of within, below my monthly take home pay. Right.
Nancy: Yep. I often think about our vacations. We've had some nice vacations through the years and we've enjoyed paying for some of those vacations, but I feel like for the most part when we travel or we go somewhere, we try to stay maybe at one of our family's vacation homes that doesn't cost us very much of anything. Like we try to make vacations very affordable or cheap, and we don't do a lot of really expensive vacations that often.
Will: Yeah or go visit family and stay with them. You know, that's just kind of, that's time away. Right? Yeah. It's not always a big rental or a big trip. You know, we've done a few, but not always, you know, I was one of the other books I read early on was Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. And he made the observation in there that most people never actually get ahead in their purchase of assets or their wealth building because their lifestyle goes up on a one-to-one basis with their income. As their income increases, they spend it all, you know, just on consumption. Right? And our, as our income has grown and we've advanced in our careers, our spending has absolutely gone up, but it's not gone up on a one-to-one basis.
We live a lot better and a lot differently than we used to when it was just you and me. It's kind of, you know, you think about what you spend with kids or what you spend, what you used to spend when you didn't have kids. And it's kind of gross how expensive kids are, but we haven't gone up at a one-to-one basis, right. Where income has gone up, but we've allocated some of that or reserved a lot of that for saving for debt payment as opposed to spending it all, just trying to be intentional around that.
Nancy: Yep. And even our decision to buy this home was intentional because this home was a foreclosure and it sat empty for a year and a half. And it wasn't something that was a new build or, you know, at the top of the price, I mean it, and then we worked him down, we did some negotiating. So I think, you know, even that decision is hugely important when you think about our overall wealth picture and getting out of debt, because we were able to pay off the debt faster because of that, we, we got, we made money at the buy of the house. You know, we knew that if we bought it at this certain price, which we were praying for and hoping for, and we ended up getting it for, then it would automatically make us money in the long run. So I think, even thinking through that is important.
Will: There was a lot of work that we had paid, you know, we paid some people to help us with. And there's a lot of work that we've done ourselves on the house, like upgrades and fixes and things that needed to be done, just did it ourselves. And it takes, it takes time. We're not done yet and kind of keep going there. But yeah, absolutely.
Nancy: So one question that I get, which I think is fair and good for us to talk about and ask is, would you ever go into debt again? So, you know, we've paid off our first house. We hustled hustled, hustled, did that. You know, that one, I feel like our lifestyle, like we really had a tight budget. We lived on rice and beans. We did the whole thing. This one, our income went up. We had kids, you know, it just was a different feel, but we still were being very intentional with our finances. We paid this one off in three years, still hustled, still had our eye on the prize and wanted to pay it off. But now what? You know, would we go into debt again? How, how do you feel about that?
Will: I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I'd like to say no, never. And experience has shown that maybe. Never consumer debt, never go into debt for a car, or as much as I'd like to get a boat, we're not going to go into debt for a boat. Never credit card debt or anything like that. It, if a beautiful, perfect property came up where we could build multiple home sites with family or something like that might be hard to say no to that completely or completely shut the door to that also, you know, or if a business, the opportunity to purchase a business or something like that came up, then, you know, I'm not looking to purchase a business or do anything like that, but you know, if the opportunity arose, I can't say that I wouldn't consider it.
Nancy: Yeah.
Will: What do you, what do you think?
Nancy: I mean, I feel the same way. I feel like I'm, I think in our relationship, I'm more of the one that's like, no, I'm like, I want to stay dent free. And I know you do too, for sure. But I also feel like, and, and I think again, like that's my pride talking is like, I want to stay debt-free, I've really liked the comfort, I think is, you know, the wife, the mom comfort, security, all of that's like very important. I love that secure feeling, but I will say through the lesson of, you know, going back into debt for this home, the lessons that I've learned through that, like I've mentioned before, are so valuable. I'm not going to be so prideful again, that if God gave us an amazing opportunity and we knew that it was wise, we knew that it was a great deal. We knew that this was a form of his hand of provision in our lives and that we could pay it off and continue to build wealth and even make grounds for his kingdom. Like I wouldn’t, in the name of no debt, like walk away or say like, absolutely not. That's not who we are. I would, I'd be much more open to it now. So I agree. It's, you know, I like to think we'd never go back into debt again. Maybe we won't, maybe we won't ever go back into debt in. Maybe we will. I, you know, I'm not gonna say never, like you said, but I think that just keeping our hands open and our eyes open for what God is doing is like the best approach. And also just always getting wise counsel, like we have some amazing friends who could speak into that, you know? If we had a deal come up or something, an opportunity, yes. Is this wisdom or is it foolishness? Are we jumping on something cause it sounds really good and bright and shiny, or is it really a wise step to take with our financial picture?
Will: I would say I would probably look at debt as like a last, last resort. Yeah. You know, I would try to do everything, but try to figure out if a deals to be done. Could it be done any other way where I'm not taking out a loan to make it happen?
Nancy: Yep. Okay. Another question. Why would you pay off your house and why, why would that be a major goal when interest rates are so low, it's like so cheap to maintain a mortgage and you can make so much more money if you invest it right now?
Will: Yeah. I mean, mathematically, if you just do the pure math, like maybe doesn't make sense, right? The, in the stock market's going up or it's been going up in the last couple of years, really good. Right? Why not take that $150 that you paid down on the house and put it in the stock market and let it grow and then just pay off your house, which is, you know, it's not consumer debt is not costing you money, pay it off over the, you know, over the life of the loan. Right? So with that, you do have to factor in the interest that you'd pay over the life of the loan. Right. Which isn't nothing. And most people don't realize how much on their 30 year mortgage they're going to pay in a loan. I mean, it could be as much as, you know, six figures over a hundred thousand dollars over the life of a loan. And so you have to factor that in, of course. And then when you factor risk into the equation, the it doesn't get as clear cut. Right? It's much more of a close trade, at least I feel like.
There's so much. I imagine a lot of your listeners know the Enneagram. And when you read the book about the Enneagram, you thought I was a I was maybe a six or maybe a one. I'm not a six, but I do think a lot in terms of worst case downside, worst case scenario situation, right? And so the worst financial situation ever that could, for our family would be me becoming completely disabled and unable to work and in need of a regular medical or, or other care. That would be the worst. That'd be worse than death. That'd be worse than just the loss of loss of income, et cetera, right? Being debt free on our home allows you would allow you in that worst, horrible case scenario to make a choice about where you want to live, where you think is best for our family to live.
If you were to say, if I was completely disabled, unable to contribute to that decision, you could say, Hey, I can scrape together a few thousand dollars to keep our family home that we want to raise our children in a few thousand dollars a year, a year, a few thousand dollars a year to pay taxes and insurance, and to keep it cared for right?
A few thousand dollars, you can absolutely do that. Or if you said, Hey, no, it's a great time to sell. I'm going to sell the home and move to something that's easier to maintain. You have that option, but you're not forced to make choices then, right? If you know, debt represents risk. And if you don't factor that into the equation, right. If everything goes great, hey, no problem on the debt. But if everything doesn't go exactly how you hope, then that debt represents risk and could cost you something. Right? And so, you know, we don't have to, you know, our, home's not up for discussion if I lost my income, if I lost my career, if I lost my health, if we lost any number of things, right? If I income when and half, if we got laid off, right, I don't work for anybody so I can't get laid off. But you know, the, if all of that was at risk, right, the home is not at risk where we raise our family, where our kids live. And there's a lot of peace and security that comes along with that. And people don't factor that in to when you're just typing numbers on a calculator and thinking about that. And so we've also freed up a ton of cashflow to be able to continue to build wealth and save. So, there's opportunities for that to continue to grow. And we can do it at an even faster rate now that we don't have the mortgage tying us down. What are your thoughts? I mean, why do, why do we do it when we know the math is different?
Nancy: Yeah. And you know, we even had a meeting with our financial advisor this morning and we've talked to him about this being our goal. And we're like, listen, we know that investing mathematically on paper makes more sense, but he's been very encouraging and respectful of the fact that this is a financial goal that we have, that we want because of the peace of mind and the security. But for me, there's like an emotional measurement of like momentum and motivation that I get from paying off our house and seeing something go to zero, like seeing that mortgage go to zero and knowing that I am, that we are chasing this goal. To me, that's highly motivating for me to be a better steward with our money every month.
And for me not to just buy whatever I see on Instagram or do whatever I want on Amazon or, you know, go to Target. Now don't get me wrong. I buy things on Instagram and Amazon and Target, but that's also why, you know, I do my Contentment Challenge, keep my heart in check. It's like, what I want more than anything is to be a wise financial steward of the gifts that God has given us. And when I have a goal that we're trying to reach together, like paying off our house, it emotionally is motivating for me. There's security there. You can't measure that like on paper, like if we were to just continue to just invest, invest, invest, and then maintain our mortgage for me, because I'm like a 3 on the Enneagram and I like goals, and I like to feel progress. That would kind of be demoralizing just for me personally. I'm not saying every couple.
Will: Sure.
Nancy: But I just really love the momentum of like checking things off and making progress on something. So I think it's just good to keep in mind that like finances are yes, it’s numbers. It is numbers. Absolutely. That is what finance is. It’s dollar bills. It’s money in your account. It's sure. But it has so much to do with your emotion and your motivation and your momentum.
Will: Dave Ramsey said 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge, right. Hey, we know the things that we need to do. We know we need to make more money, make better decisions, save, invest, and all that kind of thing. But it's about what we do. And if that helps you do the right thing, right? Then that's huge. Yep. Makes all the difference.
Nancy: Any closing thoughts or encouragement that you would like to leave?
Will: Yeah. I mean, I'd just love for folks to dream and think about what's possible if they were debt-free right. How much money do you have going out in a payment every month, in payments, every single month to a bank or to a mortgage or to a, on your car note or on your student loan and think about what's possible, right? What kind of wealth could you build? What would that open up for your family? What would that do for the kingdom? You know, I think that giving—this has been a lesson that we learned is that giving happens all along the way, right? In our debt-free journey. Right. Not just, oh, I'll, I'll be sure to give when, get there. That's not how it happens. Giving happens along the way. And also we just freed up a bunch of money to where we can give more and we have more options on how we give and what we do and that's really exciting, because we’re blessed to be a blessing. It's not all about so that we can enrich ourselves, but truly so that God has taken care of us so that we can care for others. And so that's, if that's your heart, think about it, then that's best done. Yes. You can absolutely give time, you can also absolutely give talent.
Right. But you can really help people as well through the, the treasure, the money, the finances that the Lord flows through you. And if you're willing to do that, just think about what could be possible if you open that up. And I love giving, too, because it means that right, you are doing ministry work while you're asleep. You send dollars to the other side of the world in some missionary is doing work that you can't do, because you're at home with your kids. Right, and so what is possible, like, whatever it is that people want to do, maybe they want to buy a new, maybe they want to buy a new home, or maybe they want to get a boat or a lake house or something cool like that they've always wanted to have.
And that's awesome, too. And, but just think about what's possible, as well. If you were to free and unshackle your income, unshackle your finances from the chains of debt and be completely free of that, it'd be really, really exciting.
Nancy: Yeah. I think for me, like the most encouraging thing, I can leave with someone listening. And also it's been the most encouraging thing for me this time around too, is the legacy this is leaving in our children. And the first time we paid off our house, it was just me and you. This time we loaded up all three of them into the car and we took them to the bank and we explained to them what debt is. We explained to them, that we were going to be debt-free that we're paying off our house and they don't really get it, right? There's six and almost four and two. But I do think that day left an impression on them. And I, you know, we recorded us, you know, we didn't go on the Dave Ramsey show this time like we did the first time and all that, but we just recorded all of us out in front of the bank saying, “We're debt free!” And you know, for about a week after that, Lyndon would just randomly look at me and say, mommy, “We're debt free, right?”
Like still? And I don't even think she knows what it means, but it left an impression on her little mind. And just to point back to that, to talk about money with our kids, you know, we often say, you know, as their Milly's having a really hard time giving, you know, she wants to buy everything for herself and everything, just for us to say, “Hey, giving is the most fun you'll ever have with your money. You know, it's all God's money.” Just having the significance of passing on these lessons to our kids.
This time is really sweet and just enjoying stuff with them. You know, like the day that we paid off our house, we made a day of it. We went to the park, we went to a splash pad, favorite barbecue place. We let them get ice cream. You know, we, we made a day of it. And I think they really, I think they'll remember it. And if not, I've got the pictures to show for it to tell them about it, but just to encourage anyone listening, it is, it's just about the bigger picture. It is about the freedom so that you can give so that you can teach and model this to the next generation and share with them what that means and why. And as they get older, we'll continue to talk to them about it more and more, but that was just fun. And just to have the joy of that, you know, to have the money, to like go do that and splurge and have fun and celebrate with our little family was really a precious, precious little reward.
Will: It was very sweet.
Nancy: Okay. Well, it's time for the Work & Play Cornerstore. And we have a special financial edition of the Work & Play Cornerstore where Will and I are just going to share some resources that have helped us through the last, I don't know how long we've been married now, 13 Years. We've been together 14 years, 15? Yeah. So anyway, just why don't you run down some of our favorite books and resources. If they're a book, I'll definitely leave them in my Cornerstore, my Amazon affiliate store, which is just nancyray.com/cornerstore. You can find them there.
Will: How many do you want? Cause I could go for a little while.
Nancy: Just try to keep it short and try to keep it concise.
Will: The thing that started it for all of us was Financial Peace University. Yeah. And the book that corresponds probably best with that would be The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. And of course I quoted or referred to Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, as well.
One of the most recent books that has had a massive impact on both myself and a lot of the CEOs and business owners I serve it was called God and Money. Outstanding. And I didn't read it at first cause I was like, yeah, kind of been in this game for a while about Christian finance and stuff. And it's a very good, very challenging read. I've had folks call me and say, Will, I'm reading God and Money and it is blowing me up right now. And I love that. And so, you know, getting a truly biblical perspective on financial management and there's a lot of principles in there that are good to wrestle with and consider, Those are the ones that kind of come to mind initially.
Nancy: Just going back to Financial Peace University too, when we started, it was like a 13 week long class that you had to go in person to a church for, and now it's like eight weeks and it's all online, it's so easily accessible. You can still go in person.
Will: Yeah, you can.
Nancy: And I highly recommend the in-person version, but with COVID and everything, don't let anything deter you from taking that class. If you have not taken that class, let that be the first thing that you do. We are not an affiliate for them. We've literally, we literally just believe in it because of how it's helped us helped us. And then The Journey of Generosity, which is incredible.
Will: Yes. Outstanding kind of retreat experience with an organization called Generous Giving, just a place to it's kind of a retreat to reflect and consider what God has given you and what He's calling you to do with your finances and how you can grow in generosity.
Nancy: Yeah. It's one night. So for any young moms listening like ah, childcare expenses, it is, it's brief and it's powerful and it's just a one night overnight. That is great. It really, it changed our lives, I feel like it changed my perspective on a lot.
Well, that's it. That's our update. Will, thank you for that.
Will: Thank you for having me. Grateful for the opportunity.
Nancy: So don't forget for quick access, you can head to nancyray.com/cornerstore and it will take you to my Amazon affiliate store.
Thanks so much for listening to Episode 124 of Work and Play with Nancy Ray. I'm going to close with words from Gregory Baumer, author of God and Money. He said,
"Scripture includes over 2000 verses on wealth and money for a reason, our handling of wealth is critical to our relationship with God. Randy Alcorn said it best, 'God sees our finances and our faith is inseparable.'"
Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.
